Church attacked online, Morrilton pastor stood his ground
On stage at the Rialto Community Arts Center in Morrilton May 22, two different Gospel messages were conveyed to a crowd of Catholics and non-Catholics — one of condemnation and exclusivity, the other of mercy and teaching.
The two-hour moderated debate with the theme, “Is the Roman Catholic Church a Gospel-Denying Church,” was organized between Father Stephen Hart, pastor of Sacred Heart Church in Morrilton and St. Elizabeth Church in Oppelo, and Rev. Allen S. Nelson IV, pastor of Providence Baptist Church in Perryville. About 375 people attended the sold-out, free debate, with Father Hart estimating more than 160 Catholics present.
Father Hart proposed the debate after Nelson posted inflammatory comments about Catholicism on Facebook. Nelson was tasked with proving the Church was Gospel-denying. He shared common anti-Catholic misconceptions, claiming Catholics are paganists, worshipping “a wafer” when referring to the Eucharist.
Controversial post
As the world mourned Pope Francis’ death April 21, Nelson posted on his personal Facebook page his hatred for Roman Catholicism, stating in part, “(Pope Francis) died as a Gospel denier and false teacher both complicit and an instigator in deceiving billions of people around the world. He will be in hell for all eternity. The office of the pope is antichrist.”
The post was shared with Father Hart, who told Arkansas Catholic, “I then had an image of a debate at the Rialto Community Arts Center here in Morrilton, and I could not shake the image.”
After consulting with parish leadership, the diocesan legal counsel and Bishop Anthony B. Taylor, Father Hart invited Nelson April 23 to a “charitable, respectful and on-task” moderated debate.
The two pastors did not know each other previously.
“There is so much disinformation about Catholic teaching here in Arkansas. My hope is that this event is an opportunity for locals to learn and correct any unjust bias they may have,” Father Hart said. “Additionally, the post-COVID era is ripe for good things. People are hungry and searching. My hope is that the Lord may use this labor to reap a bountiful harvest.”
Sacred Heart parishioners held a holy hour before the debate. Sacred Heart Deacon Dr. Peter Post said, “I think it’s important to respond to your critics because Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen said something like people seem to hate Catholicism, but if they knew what the Catholic Church taught, they would not hate it; they’d love it. It’s misunderstood.”
Different interpretations
The two debate participants and moderator agreed to clearly outlined rules. Private security and law enforcement from Conway County and Morrilton were present.
Both pastors, at points, quoted John 14:6, in part, where Jesus says, “I am the way, the truth and the life.” But each had different interpretations of living out that reality in Christ. Nelson often claimed his own interpretation of the Bible, emphasizing he was not beholden to Martin Luther or other Protestant reformers, while Father Hart relied on the Bible, catechism and authority of the Church.
Nelson opened the debate, his voice rising throughout his 14 minutes, spouting off Bible verses, condemning Rome and emphasizing the “punishment of hell” for those who don’t follow God’s perfect law.
While the interpretation of the Gospels was different, so was the delivery.
Father Hart, whose opening remarks lasted more than 11 minutes, kept a consistent and calm tone, opening his initial comments with the sign of the cross and the phrase, “Praised be Jesus Christ, now and forever.” He explained Nelson’s history of attacking the Catholic Church, the falsehoods he espoused and his misunderstanding of Catholic teaching, from honoring Mary and the saints to the teaching authority in Rome.
Father Hart discussed the split of Martin Luther and frequently referenced Calvinism, a sector of reformed Protestantism emphasizing God’s sovereignty and predestination based on the teachings of John Calvin.
Much of the debate focused on salvation and the different interpretations of justification. In Baptist theology, justification means a person is righteous by being covered in the merits of Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection alone. They consider this extrinsic or forensic righteousness.
In Catholic theology, justification is God making a sinner righteous through the forgiveness of sins and renewal, by God’s grace and the human response of free will cooperating with grace. This journey begins with baptism and continues throughout a person’s life as they follow Christ through the sacraments and Catholic social teachings, which emphasize caring for one another and God’s creation. It is intrinsic righteousness, which means an internal transformation by God’s grace.
Father Hart explained, “He grants forgiveness of sins by his passion and new life by his resurrection, not simply by covering us, but actually restoring our state of grace. In the Catholic view, human nature is not covered over, but transformed by grace. We are not piles of dung covered by the snow of God’s righteousness. Christ’s grace transforms us and makes us ourselves righteous before the Father.”
“Works” regarding salvation were also discussed, with Father Hart emphasizing Nelson’s misunderstanding of St. Paul’s speaking of works in Romans 3:28. This passage refers to the works of the Mosaic law, not the works of love Jesus commanded. Father Hart referenced Matthew 25, “I was hungry, and you gave me food. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink,” explaining God’s requirement of both faith and “persevering in love.”
Nelson often addressed Catholics in the crowd with condemnation, saying, “If you’re trusting in the made-up, man-made system that Rome has built, and by the way codified in 1546, you have no hope of Christ.”
The loudest reaction was in Nelson’s closing remarks when he referred to the Catholic Church as a “demonically influenced system.” Father Hart motioned to the crowd for calm, and the boos quickly diminished.
Making assumptions
Father Hart addressed the non-Catholics once in his closing remarks, saying, “I ask: when it comes to Catholic things, have the humility to ask questions instead of making assumptions.” He also called on the Catholics to have more conviction in their own faith and be willing to educate. He invited Nelson to “break bread” with one friend each, and they met again May 24.
Several people lined up to ask faith-based questions at the end of the debate.
Clay Beggs, formerly a Protestant who joined Sacred Heart Church at Easter last year, said Nelson’s comments were derogatory.
“Father Hart never once took a shot at Protestants like that. Never have I been to a Catholic Mass where a priest, or anyone for that matter, would degrade other religions like that. I found it offensive and distasteful honestly,” Beggs said. “Just like (Father Hart) said, you can’t understand trigonometry or calculus before adding and subtracting. It’s the same with the Gospels and the faith we have. Our faith goes a lot further than what the Gospels actually say. The Catholic faith has the foundation and the education that we can take it farther. Rev. Nelson said, ‘I’m just a simple man from south of the river.’ That’s a cop out. You either come to the debate knowing what you’re talking about or fall on that sword.”
Joshua McKinney, minister of Legacy Baptist Church in Bella Vista, said, “I’m so appreciative of the debate because it helps people to think intentionally, on both sides. And what I think, when the dust settles from the conversations, what I’m hoping is just the comments from Pastor Allen and Pastor Hart, that people are considering Christ.”
Colleen Hoelzeman, a parishioner and teacher at Sacred Heart Church and School, said she liked hearing both perspectives.
“You have to understand that maybe their perspective is different from yours. They may not be as informed about your faith, so you’ve got to be able to be willing to teach that,” she said.
A video of the debate will be uploaded to Ark of Heaven Media Group’s YouTube channel May 31.
